CURRENT STORY

[brokentripod]

Arr, I'm alive an online. Going to try to respond to everything before I leave for my stupid school thing.

EDIT: Gosh, this might take longer than I wanted it to...I may or may not need to open up the games and get some screenshots.

Blah, I'll try to get everything type up nicely...

EDIT2: This is taking a while. Ugh, and I've got to do something for school and go out for lunch and be social today.

You should be able to expect this by tomorrow afternoon. It all really depends on what time I wake up tomorrow. I'm putting this before my summer school work, though...Which I really shouldn't, as we're just arguing. ><!!!

[Reaper21]

Eh dont' stress yourself too much tripod =P I've got enough info to know what I'm doing for now. And to xxghostkillerxx ya shephard could survive the radiation with his PCV. And yah a nuke would for the most part ahnilate black mesa but realisticly it wouldn't disenegrate every part of it =P alot of it is underground too, black mesa is huge. And plus wouldn't it be cool to go through the whole post-nuculear setting? If anyone should return to black mesa it should be shephard really so I think its a good idea.

[brokentripod]

LONGEST POST IN THE WORLD...

GO:


Here’s my post in response to everything (All posts made thus far) in this thread. I encourage you to read it all, as I may blend ideas/reasoning together.

I’ll provide picture proof, perhaps some Wikipedia links, probably not any videos, though. So be prepared for something long and very text-based. Sorry.

Reaper21:
He made the first post. Yeah. Nothing to respond to. Moving on.

Mrsugar:

“Hmm good, but return to Black mesa have no sence Maybe you can make a new resarch lab on another planet.”

A research lab on another planet makes even less sense than a return to Black Mesa. Unless you mean Xen or something, in which case the player basically needs to return to Black Mesa anyway, since no one else on the Combine-Ruled Earth has this technology.

“Or underwater laboratories may be interesting.”

Doesn’t really make sense in the Half-Life plot. Underwater laboratories don’t really make sense anyway (Or, that’s my personal opinion. I’m sure there’s some out there). The Combine have (Apparently) been draining the water from the Earth…Meh, if Reaper and anyone else he grabs as the story editor believes we need a completely random underwater lab, then I’m fine with it.

I personally don’t believe we need to introduce anything completely new. The plot I’ve written places most of the stress on a city in New Mexico (An unnamed city in fact), which could easily exist and Black Mesa, which I personally believe can EASILY exist. I’ll prove/talk about it more later. It’s also not a work fan fiction like youreviltwin says.

“That underwater labs can be attacked by Xen wildlife (for example Hydra) and other water creatures.”

This doesn’t really make sense to me. The Hydra would be fun to bring back, but I don’t think I want to. Unless we can grab some awesome coder, then I’d worry about it messing up and bugging the game to the point of being unplayable. We also don’t know how to kill a hydra, do we..? If we do, I’ll admit to not reading up much about the Hydra anyway.

Also, if the Xen wildlife could get to the underwater lab…Why couldn’t the Combine? And if the Combine could get there, there would be no life on the thing whatsoever. Well, no human life. Which relates to the next part:

“Shephard fall with his helicopter to sea and scientist from these laboratiories rescued him.”

A scientist wouldn’t be there. Also, flying around in a helicopter would be pretty hard with Combine Dropships and Gunships patrolling the skies. None of this part makes sense to me, and I can’t think of a good way to get Shephard out to an underwater lab. (Well, I can, but I don’t really want to.)

“G-man want close Combine Portal and he will use Shephard.”

Sure.

“SHephard must contact other members of his team and go to secret rebel base and try close this portal.”

Shephard has a team..? I’m not sure what team you’re talking about, but I’d guess it was a team of military guys. Uh, he could have one of those, I suppose. I personally would prefer it if he was alone for decent portions of time. You also mention a secret rebel base…Meaning this part would be after the Combine invades. Err, I’m not sure where you’re going with this. Closing a portal would probably require help from a scientist or lots and lots of explosives. Or a gravity gun, if Shephard suddenly becomes Gordon Freeman.

“Well i don't really know.”

All right, then.

“And btw will be appear DR.Rosenberg?”

No idea. We have to talk about him more. He could be used, but I personally don’t want him to, as he escaped Black Mesa with Barney. As for where he would appear again…I’d suspect he would be somewhere in City 17 or on the outskirts. Perhaps he’s in Episode 2?

Reaper21:

“We're waiting for a really big set of ideas from our real story editor, BrokenTripod he should be posting it soon”

Yay, I posted it already. Perhaps I shouldn’t respond to EVERYTHING. Whatever. =P

“I think hes got a couple reasons for alot of this so look for his post =P.”

A couple reasons? Aw. Give me more credit than that. I’ve got a LOT of reasons! And that just allows for more reasons to be brought against me.

“These are just the basic ideas we pretty much know we're gonna be doing.”

Yeeep. Just a few basic ideas are in the first post.

Brokentripod:

Yeah, there’s no way I’m responding to myself. Read on!

Reaper21:

Responded to.

Brokentripod:

My response.

Reaper21:

“This clears up alot and these ideas are great.”

Thank you.

“I do have alot of the 7-hour war part covered but I could still use a couple ideas here and there just to make it seem more full and just not action with one main objective.”

Alright then, we’ll talk about the 7-Hour War part later. I think. There’s plenty of stuff Shephard could do during the 7-Hour War, but it all has to lead to failure. I was personally considering it to be something like the second choice Gordon had at the end of HL1.

Shephard is thrown into a battle that he cannot possibly win. Only he has weapons now and can at least fight back, if only just a little. It’s the G-man testing Shephard’s survival skills.

“I agree they shouldn't go to the combine homeworld I was just confused before.”

Okay. Yeah, Combine homeworld is a big no-no. Especially other planets. If anything, this mod should take place on Earth and Xen. Nothing else.

“Well I was thinking about the headcrab thing and I guess it would make alot of since if we timed everything right made it look good.”

Headcrabs are fun. Also, the G-man can’t have Shephard running around yelling: “There’s some freaky government agent behind everything!” Because that’s just bad. So, that’s why I had Shephard lose his voice. It was the most “artistic” way I could think of doing it (Well, I’m sure it’s not the MOST. I could probably thing of something else…)

“I just played op4 a couple days ago to refresh my memory and you've cleared up things so now I'm seeing where this is headed especially the G-man part now I understand.”

Oh, good.

“Yah maybe I will realease it episodic, but in that case I'm gonna need some sub-plots and diversions and things to make the 1st part seem a little longer what exactly I don't know.”

We can discuss it more in depth later. Perhaps we need a more 7-Hour War oriented thread/topic to talk about this on? This one is more related to the overall story.

“The reason I wanted the marine saying that or something like that to shephard was because they know hes from the HECU at this point and they're regular marines and they're thinking "this guy probably knows whats going on" but i'm not sure about the marines interacting with shephard thing I kinda wanted more ideas on that.”

This works for me, I guess. I still don’t think other marines would really know Shephard or what the HECU was doing back in Black Mesa, as that was supposed to be a secret mission.

“Well I like the getting knocked unconcious thing and maybe we could have somone try to like hide shephard? like some friendly homeless man on the streets? lol just an idea.”

Knocking a player in a game like this unconscious is actually a hard thing to do without making it completely forced. HL2 did a great job with the part right after the rooftops. You’re in a small corridor with Metrocops coming at you with stun sticks.

As for how to knock the player unconscious during this game, perhaps we go for something that seems a bit less scripted by works well. I was thinking of those huge Strider cannons basically tearing up a street and cars, signs, poles, etc. fly into the player’s face as his screen burns a bright white color, showing how close he was to being hit. Something flies directly at his screen and “poof,” it immediately goes to black.

“And I think getting into a line and metro cop training would be cool because it would just kinda show how people volenteer and stuff I want to find a way to make it seemed a little less forced though your right.”

If you really want this, it’s simple enough to have Shephard awake and be forced into line as he sees scared and hungry looking people walk off the street into the line. I’ll find a way to tie this into the rest of the story eventually (After I’m done explaining everything I need to explain…)

“And we could have gman messing with a console that maybe has a sign nearby like "Assignment Console" thats obvious enough for the player to see and know G-man has something to do with where you're going."

That…would be pretty lame. I personally think the player should see what the G-man is doing any not be told by anyone or anything what’s going on. When he finally gets to the place he was originally supposed to go, they tell him his assignment has been changed. It’s subtle. It’s sort of like the beginning of HL2, with Gordon almost going off to Nova Prospekt. If you really want to, at the end of the game, the G-man can say something about changing Shephard’s assignment, though I think it’s unneeded.

“I'm not sure about the whole Eli/Kleiner part either it was just an idea cause I always wanted to see eli lose his leg.”

Could have the scientists in Black Mesa show a video of the two climbing a wall. This could happen as the scientists tell Shephard who they saw leave the facility before the explosion.

“And as for ideas of the ending... the ending is a mystery to me right now so post any ideas you think but we probably won't make a final decsion yet.”

I’d like to get to the ending, but I’ve got to explain all this stuff first, and so I probably can’t talk about it today. Annnd the other guys have to get on and we’ve got to discuss all this stuff I’m typing right now. Yeaaaah. So it might take a while. For now, I suggest working on the 7-Hour maps. I’m pretty sure I’m going to be able to argue for the addition of them, even if it’s a part that you completely lose. It’s mean to show how good Shephard is at survival. Something the G-man may not have felt Shephard did sufficiently enough back in Black Mesa (He had quite a bit of help from the other soldiers).

“I'm trying to get the other team members to take part in this forum but they don't interact with the community that much (I think they're shy =P) Any mappers we'll have wil need to read this =P.”

I’m okay with them not being social. What do they specialize in, anyway? I know you’re a mapper, are they mappers, too? In any case, the mappers don’t have to read this thread. I’ll type something up later for them to read and it will be MUCH shorter. They don’t need the reasoning for stuff like Black Mesa’s existence and such.

All the mapper needs to know is what the setting is like. The reasoning only needs to be read if the mapper feels an area shouldn’t exist.

youreviltwin:

Hithere.

“Clearly a lot of thought and effort has gone into writing this storyline, so kudos to brokentripod for that.”

Thank you for the kudos.

“But honestly, I don't think this storyline can convincingly fit into the Half-Life storyline at all, for several reasons:”

Hurrah, several reasons. I should start skipping more stuff…Onwards I go to debate why things exist.

“1) You have the satellite that Gordon launched as being what allows the Combine to invade, and say that in Decay Gina and Colette tried to shut the satellite down.”

Yeah, yes I do.

“You've got that all backwards!”

Crap. I can’t wait until the Decay mod for PC comes out. I’ll be able to better understand the Half-Life plot. Yaay.

“In Decay Gina and Colette help Gordon to launch the satellite.”

OH! They help launch the satellite. That makes my plot require more explanation. Awesome. Ugh. I can’t wait until they release the PC mod Decay. It’d make it so much easier. I’m sorry for not knowing the story, but I only recently got a PS2 (For Free! I fixed it) and I haven’t even seen Half-Life anywhere, which really sucks. I was looking forward to playing it! I hope you know what you’re talking about, otherwise I’ll have to rewrite this story soooo many times.

“They have to transmit "All Clear codes" from the Air Traffic Control Centre so that Gordon can launch the rocket.”

That makes sense to me. Onwards!

“The purpose of the satellite is to help the scientists study the dimensional rift and pull off a "resonance reversal", to stop the dimensional rift from expanding from Black Mesa and covering the whole Earth.”

Doesn’t that basically fail..? Otherwise the Combine invasion doesn’t work half as well. The Xenians still cover the Earth (Most of it..?) Or I might have this part completely wrong, too.

From what I know, the Resonance Cascade was basically utilized by the Combine…Arg, I’ll explain more:

Resonance Cascade happens! People freak out. People go to city centers to get away from the new aliens that are randomly appearing worldwide? People go to the city centers because it’s easier to defend than if they stayed further apart and separated. People continue freaking out.

This continues for a while.

Combine portals appear. Combine citadels are teleported onto planet Earth. (Alright, I’ve read stuff, tell me if this next part sounds right/true) The citadels don’t come out of the ground. They might come out of the sky, but no one really knows/cares. The area that the citadels are going to land in are teleported away (likely to the Combine homeworld?) and the citadel basically trades spots with everything that was in it’s way.

That “crater” the citadel is in was actually covered with buildings and such a while ago, but the Combine teleported that area away and the Citadel “appeared” there (Maybe it just fell from the sky very fast?)

Anyway, AFTER that, the Citadel starts it’s motors or whatever and starts pounding the ground. Why? Maybe to keep the Antlions away…Maybe to dig down further, towards the Earth’s core for resources? I think it’s probably the resource one.

Why? Because the more a race expands and such, the more resources it needs. Combine come to Earth for the resources..? Maybe. It doesn’t really matter..?

Anyway, youreviltwin, I read your idea where the craters were made from something imploding and a smallish black hole appears there (Obviously a small one, otherwise the whole Earth would be sucked in!!), and I don’t think that one works as well. Explosions usually cause more rounded holes, I believe. The crater at City 17 is deep and irregularily shaped, not rounded.

Meh, let’s not argue about craters, though.

Okay, so after all that the Combine Citadels are on Earth in the center of major cities and basically go and kill everything that opposed them (Which is conveniently placed around them!) in 7 hours. This strategy of the Combine’s basically screws Earth over. Even if the Combine were weak against Nuclear weapons and technology, we can’t really shoot a nuke at these Citadels, since the radiation would kill all the humans below and it’d just be a pointless stalemate with all humans dead and the Combine held at bay for just a little while.

Do de do. So that’s my argument for why the Satellite in Half-Life 1 and Decay failed to do it’s duty. So it’s still floating around up there with the ability to play with portals and teleportation stuff. Thus it’s easy to say that the Satellite was either sabotaged (Well, you know the Breen = Evil theory. It could’ve also been the G-man? Perhaps? Perhaps the G-man didn’t know that Breen sabotaged it? Maybe Gina/Colette screwed up terribly?)

Ar, I’m spending too much time on one sentence…

“The idea that the satellite was actually used by the Combine to cause portal storms and invade Earth is a crazy idea that for some reason was on the Half-Life Saga Story Guide.”

That’d be where I got the idea for abusing the Satellite. It made sense to me. It makes as much sense as the Breen = Evil theory…Well, in my mind it does. Who says that Satellite was actually programmed to do a Resonance Reversal? How do we know “Breen” (or whoever is evil in Half-Life) didn’t reprogram the thing to help the Combine? How do we know it wasn’t the thing that brought the Combine here, as well as kept some of the portal storms going? How do we know that the Combine aren’t in control of the Satellite right now and using it to keep these renegade “Portal Storms” away from their Citadels? I didn’t see any Xenians anywhere in City 17 (Oh, sure, there’s the random Vortigaunts and stuff, but nothing spontaneously appearing. And the Combine are the ones sending the Headcrabs everywhere…)

“The Half-Life Saga Story Guide was a pretty cool website but the thing about the satellite was a totally made-up invention.”

It is a pretty cool website. I like the guy. He’s pretty cool. We had a few e-mails exchanged before us on whether Earth was going to be abused for resources or used as a Combine nesting ground. Apparently, the “official” Valve choice is that Earth was going to be terraformed (kinda) to allow for a new type of resident. (Likely our Combine overlords or their armies..?)

[brokentripod]

“The creator of the HLSSG never played Decay, and so he knew nothing about the role the satellite had in Decay.”

Yeah, I never played it either. But yeah. I sort of talked about the Satellite already. I don’t think it really matters whether or not Gina and Colette tried to shut the satellite down or turn it on. I can rewrite parts of the story to suit my ideas…but I first need to play Decay to see what Gina and Colette’s true intentions are. I’ve already got an idea for how the story works with the Satellite being turned on. So…yeah.

“He thought it was weird how that satellite was launched in Half-Life and never explained, and so he incorporated it into the Breen conspiracy theory, but in fact the satellite did have a proper purpose and significant role in Decay.”

It was explained, sort of, in Half-Life. They said it would be used to “cover up” this whole mess. But for all we knew at the time, it could have easily just been a super-death-ray like in one of the 007 movies that would just kill everything in Black Mesa. We know now (From Decay, apparently?) that it was meant to stop the Resonance Cascade. Uh, but who knows if the satellite was meant to do what it actually did? Gina, Colette, and Freeman were all Scientists. They weren’t computer tech people. They wouldn’t be able to tell if the Satellite was opening or closing the portals. Especially without anyone on the outside directing their moves. Also, stopping the aliens from taking over the world doesn’t help much to “cover up” this whole mess. So, yeah. We don’t know what the Satellite actually did, do we? The satellite doesn’t actually get destroyed or even removed in my storyline anyway, so it’s still up to Valve to figure out what the Satellite does, if anything.

“Marc Laidlaw, the writer of the Half-Life & Half-Life 2 storyline, has stated that the portal storms are the ongoing aftereffects of the resonance cascade, and that they are still going on during the time of HL2. They travel around the world like weather systems, depositing Xen wildlife wherever they go.”

Alright. I think I’ve read that a few times before.

“He also said that the bullsquids and houndeyes are still around, deposited by portal storms, its just there aren't any in the City 17 area. So, portal storms are not caused by the Combine using a satellite.”

Yeah, of course they’re still around. They wouldn’t just go extinct like that. They’d still be in Xen and Black Mesa (Oh man, I still need to get to the Black Mesa part…SO MUCH TYPING)

Er, where was I. Ah, yes. The fact that none appear in the City 17 area just helps to prove that the Combine may have been using the Satellite to help themselves to take over Earth. It’s still up to Valve, though, which is the beauty of my plot. It doesn’t require new organizations or large constructions or anything to get it going. If Race X isn’t seen again, then it’s because the Combine puts them in their place. If the Satellite isn’t supposed to be shot down...Well, it isn’t!

Basically, my plot doesn’t rely on much other than the old games and my personal ideas about how much damage a nuke would do to Black Mesa…Which I still need to explain later. In the end of my plot, Black Mesa looks pretty much the same as it did at the end of Op4. But it’s not like NOTHING happens in my plot. Lots of stuff happens. I sort of wrap up the loose end about Race X and with the 7-Hour War part, we get a good look at how much humanity sucks. Hurrah. There’s also the sort of epic war between the four sides that I would just love to see. Yeah. Lots of people want to see what happened with Race X, and if the last you see is them overpowering a somewhat small Combine force…Well, it makes you feel quite a bit better about what you did back in Black Mesa as Shephard.

That’s my reasoning for my plot. It utilizes a bunch of old stuff, but makes it feel new. Annd I didn’t really need to tell you that, though, but it just shows you how Valve still has control over basically everything still (I like to keep it that way).

Sorry about the tangents.

“The purpose of the satelite is explained in more detail in some unused sound files that are on the HL PlayStation 2 disc - if you pop the PS2 CD into your computer and look in the folder decay_sound/scientist you'll find sound files for a Lambda Labs scientist calling Gina and Colette on the radio, saying "We are trying to stop the alien influx, but something is preventing us from doing so, some kind of energy directed from the other side seems to be holding the dimensional breach open by force. Are sensors are too close to the anomaly to give us clean readings on the rift: we must use the Omega Satellite. We tried to launch the delivery rocket but those soldiers seem to have shut down the launch sequence."”

I wish I had that disc.

I think that “energy directed form the other side” or “anomaly” is either Nihilanth (Who is still alive at this time) or the Gene Worm (which is currently sticking its head out of a portal inside part of the facility…?).

We don’t really need to know, though, do we? Want to tell me what you think this line means and how it’s significant? (Pertaining to my story or yours…Or just Half-Life in general?)

“Unfortunately that dialogue is not actually heard while playing Decay as it was in a mission that Gearbox cut from the game. Gearbox explained that they cut a couple of the missions because they were concerned that the game was too long (since there was no way to save during a mission and death meant game over, it could take several attempts and many hours to finish just one difficult mission).”

Ah, yeah. Well, I wish they had left it in as a deleted scene or something, if they had the space.

“2) Marc Laidlaw, writer of the Half-Life storyline, said that it was Valve's decision that Opposing Force should end with the Black Mesa facility being destroyed in a nuclear explosion. Valve were concerned that people would demand that Half-Life 2 be set in the Black Mesa facility, and being forced to make game after game in the same research complex would be creative death. Although OP4 was made by Gearbox, Laidlaw and the rest of Valve gave Gearbox a bunch of instructions on what they did and did not want to see in the game, and they specified that Opposing Force should end with the nuclear destruction of Black Mesa so that it could never be revisted.”

Either Marc Laidlaw is a genius, or something…I think he is. I’ve actually e-mailed him before. He’s quite nice. =D!

Anyway, he wouldn’t talk with me about anything.

So, Valve says: “CREATIVE DEATH unless we make Black Mesa explode” and Marc Laidlaw goes: “Alright!” After that, they talk with Gearbox about what they want to see in the game. Okay.

Well, I’m not sure if I’ve found Laidlaw’s secret plan or whether Valve and Laidlaw never though too much about Black Mesa…Or maybe they just figured that the flash at the end of Op4 would suffice for the “average gamer.”

Meh, whatever. I’ll talk about why Black Mesa can exist laters.

“So if you guys have the thermonuclear explosion being just a small bomb that damages a small part of the facility and makes it a bit radioactive, and allows scientists, HECU soldiers, Black Ops, Xen aliens and Race X to all survive down there... that's totally flying in the face of what Valve and Gearbox intended. So Operation Shephard wouldn't be a very convincing sequel to Opposing Force, it would be like an alternative-reality fan faction.”

Who said it was just a small bomb!?! It’s still a thermonuclear explosion thing in my plot, too!!! By the way, anything you write about the Half-Life plot is basically fan fiction. Probably alternative-reality fan fiction, too, since we don’t know the whole story, and Valve/Laidlaw are the only ones who can possibly know what the “true” story is.

Do de do. Ideally this is where my argument about Black Mesa should go. I’ll just put it at the very end, so it’s easier to find and such. You’ll have to wait just a bit longer, and it’s filled with pictures and other pretty stuff (I think. I haven’t written it up yet, but I’m sure I’m going to use picture evidence…)

Gosh, there’s a terrible glare on my screen.

“3) The Combine are a super-powerful technologically advanced race.”

Okay.

“I imagine that as well as the Citadels they also used very poweful weaponry and Synth war machines, and that humanity sent everything they had against them - fighter jets, bombers, tanks, cruise missiles, maybe even nuclear weapons.”

I’m pretty sure that Humans were pretty sure they lost once the huge spires of metal appeared from nowhere and things that were essentially bullet proof were killing them. Humans were kind of screwed from the start.

We wouldn’t use nuclear weapons, though, since all of humanity was nestled “safely” in the center of major cities.

Uh, we also probably didn’t have that much in the way of military equipment, either. It really just depends on how fast the Resonance Cascade and Portal Storms went after the Black Mesa incident (considering the fact that those glider things could FLY, I’d say the aliens spread pretty fast).

“I can't imagine that a group of soldiers would be able to run into a Citadel through the doors. The Combine have got force-fields, remember, and weapons that can instantly disintergrate people.”

I feel like just saying: “Yes, so?” but I’m not that mean =)!

We’re not just running into a Citadel through the doors. We’re taking a very Freeman approach. We’re just going over instead of under.

Combine force fields could pose a bit of a problem, but I’ve never seen a Gunship or Dropship go through a force field. I’d have to play the Citadel portion of HL2 again (Annd I’m in the middle of responding and don’t really feel like sitting through the Iron Maiden ride…)

Weapons that instantly disintegrate people could be a problem. It just adds to the survival part of the game. If something is coming at you and disintegrating people, you’d better run for your life. Or just shoot at the thing and hope you can somehow kill it before it gets to you.

Uh, were’re getting into the Citadel by jumping over the Combine moving walls by climbing a building near the wall and jumping over. Is it too simple?

“It was different for Gordon in HL2 - the Combine was not expecting a major attack, in HL2 the Combine forces on Earth are limited and mostly just humans that have been Combinified into transhuman cyborg soldiers, along with some gunships and striders for support.”

Yeah, it’s also different for Shephard. They’re expecting a big attack, not a small force. Their synths are pouring out of the Citadel to take down Humanity’s tanks and planes and…boats? Yeah. The only synth I’ve seen yet meant for taking down humans would be the Strider..and maybe the crab, with it’s little claws. Neither is really prepared to follow a human into a building and up some stairs. The Strider does have the advantage of being able to blast straight through a building, though…

“And Gordon sneaks into the Citadel through an underground entrance, alone. And he's only able to fight againt the Combine because he has the gravity gun - all his other regular weapons were disintergrated.”

Shephard would sneak into the Citadel over a wall. He could be alone. If we wanted him to be.

These guys don’t have a gravity gun. These guys have normal weapons. Will they be useless in this situation? Probably. They’re fighting a losing battle and they KNOW it. They just have to figure out how this Citadel works and see if they can blow it up. They’re unsuccessful anyway.

We don’t even NEED the Citadel part. I’m just arguing for it, since most of it is possible. The force fields would be the main problem, though.

“So, even if some marines managed to somehow get through the doors of the Citadel, and there wasn't a forcefield blocking them, they'd still be in a Citadel full of deadly Synth war machines (which are immune to bullets - remember bullets can't damage striders or gunships), and there would probably be those weapon stripping disintergrator devices near the entrance, so Shepard and the marines would lose all their weapons anyway.”

The weapon stripping device doesn’t really make sense (btw), and it probably wasn’t created until the Combine figured out what humans use and how to disarm them properly. The force fields are, again, a problem. Do de do.

“So, attacking the Citadel during the 7 Hour War, and revisting Black Mesa... neither of these ideas are very plausible.”

Actually attacking the Citadel is possible. Is it likely they would win? No. Of course not. It can be taken out pretty easily. It’s just an idea (an idea which works), and it doesn’t even need to be done. But don’t you want to find out what happened to the few who made it past everything, against all odds…Then found out there was nothing that could be done? I mean, the panels aren’t even set up for humans yet.

It’s just so touching and makes the whole 7-Hour War feel…like Humanity had no choice other than to lose. Humanity’s only choice during the war was to surrender and wait for their savior(s).

If you don’t agree, that’s okay. I personally think it gives the player a better feeling of how overwhelmed and useless we were, but then later shows how much of a punch humanity can pack. (That didn’t come out right.)

Revisiting Black Mesa is very plausible to me.

“You could have a storyline set after the 7 Hour War - just because Breen declares that Earth surrenders, doesn't mean every soldier on the planet suddenly stops fighting. Could have Adrian and other soldiers helping Black Mesa survivors (Kleiner, Eli etc) get to some place of safety or something. Or you could have a story set before the 7 Hour War, check out the thread I created in which I give some examples from my old mod idea.”

Part of it IS set after the 7-Hour War. We could easily play around with what happens when and have the part immediately after the 7-Hour War…Guh, I’m typing too much.

Basically anything is possible. We haven’t set up the complete timeline yet. I’ve read your story, too. I still need to comment on it, but this seems to need a response much sooner so that all three (four?) of us can argue about what works and what doesn’t.

I still opt for my plot, though, because it uses (abuses?) the old stuff that’s already in the plot and doesn’t require much new, questionable stuff. It also doesn’t show G-man’s intentions or whether he’s good or evil. It leaves all of that up to Valve…Meaning it should work with the rest of the series…As long as Valve doesn’t go and bring back Shephard saying: “The last thing I saw was a big monster sticking his head out of a portal, then Black Mesa exploding and the G-man told me I’d be alright. NOTHING has happened since.”

That’d totally ruin everything and I’d have to go yell at Laidlaw for not thinking about us modders.

BrokenTripod:

Heeey, it’s me again! Whee. This is too long.

youreviltwin:

Gosh, another post ><! I’m so glad I’m almost done with this.

“A return to Black Mesa could work and be a bit more believable if it doesn't have original BM scientists/soldiers/black ops/aliens still alive inside the facility. Instead you could have a situation a bit like the STALKER SHadow of Chernoybl game, where the BM facility is a dangerous radioactive area with an exclusion zone and which is also ravaged by portal storms that keep depositing Xen aliens, and since then various factions have been trying to get in and explore the Black Mesa zone.”

I prefer not taking large ideas from other games. Uh, also…various factions trying to get in doesn’t make much sense in the Half-Life story, with humanity basically concentrated and such. Unless you’re still opting for “The Foundation” to be in the mix. But I can’t really see what they would need back at Black Mesa…Since…Well, if they are as evil and diabolical as you make them seem, I doubt they would’ve done something stupid like forgetting something back in the radioactive research facility…though I guess we all make mistakes sometimes.

“Could have Adrian and a bunch of other guys trying to get back into the ruins of the facility to retrieve something important. Like perhaps some samples of Xen yellow crystal - the teleporter in Eli's lab in HL2 had a Xen crystal hooked up to it, and it seems a bit unlikely that scientists escaping from the Black Mesa disaster would have stopped to grab interesting scientific samples along the way.”

I like this, actually. It’s not bad, actually. I’d just need to put more thought into how it works and what would happen if suchandsuch happened. I’m pretty sure any scientist who grabbed it would be scared to death of what would happen if you tried teleporting to Europe while holding it…Resonance Cascade #2 anyone =D?

“In theory some Xen crstyal might have been deposited by a portal storm, but in HL the random teleportations only seemed to deposit organic matter, no chunks of rock or crystal.”

There’s some teleportations in the game (Op4 has one, I know for sure) that has random pieces of machinery teleporting to a different area. It’s not those random teleports, but one of the ones humans made. So, yeah. Who knows?

“Or perhaps some Vortigaunts brought some Xen crystal with them from Xen.”

Perhaps. It would’ve helped the humans, and Vortigaunts and humans are pretty friendly after Black Mesa.

“But since where Eli got his crystal from is not mentioned in HL2 or Episode One (and I would be surprised if they bothered to explain in Episode Two or Three), could have an epic mission to get back into Black Mesa to retrieve a crystal sample. The most likely place would probably be the Lambda Complex, since the samples were brought back by Lambda teams that went through the teleporter, and the Lambda Cmoplex had lots of doors and corridors that were locked/blocked off, so there could be all kinds of sample storage rooms that the player never saw. (Unlike Anomalous Materials, which had no unexplained doors or routes so no place for a storage room.)”

Eh, I suppose it could work. It would be difficult, considering the fact that Black Mesa and Black Mesa East are on completely opposite sides of the world. Transporation is a hard thing…Unless it happens before the 7-Hour War…But I wouldn’t like them to return to Black Mesa before the Combine appear, since anyone knowing about Black Mesa compromises it, since the Combine could discover some of the Human tech there…Or just blow up the place again and destroy all evidence of Xen. Meh. I’ll think about it a bit more. I like the idea, though.

The Lambda Complex would be a likely place to find such a crystal. Good point about the doors.

“I read your thread and you have some ideas but feel free to argue guys. I'm not an expert on the whole Decay part of the HL story and yea I think some of the ideas for black mesa may be a little crazy so maybe we could most of the black mesa part in like ruins and toxic waste everywhere maybe it would be best if shephard still had his gear cause of the gas mask?”

Mm’hmm. No one is an expert on Decay unless you have the game. Which I don’t. Black Mesa idea is a little crazy? Alright, then. Yeah, bits of it would be in ruins. Well, mostly structural damage. Most of the time you’d be on the parts of the facility with the least amount of damage. Occasionally you’d come by parts that were bombed to hell back in Black Mesa and there would obviously be some parts of the facility that just decided to fall. Shephard would be better off in his Combine suit, I believe, since it does cover the body, head to toe, without much in the way of visible seams/body parts showing. His PCV and old uniform/gas mask is human made and probably isn’t quite as good at covering Shephard from radiation and the sort.

[brokentripod]

“I didn't think of the Xen crystal idea either maybe we could shift the story a little, but Its definatly still going to be in the 7-hour war and it would work because shephard is helping in a desperate fight and trying to survive with all the chaos.”

Xen crystal isn’t a bad idea, I agree. Good to see you’re still fighting for the 7-Hour War part.

“Yes most battles would probably end up having the marines utterly crushed but that dosn't mean the player can't have an objective. I think we chould combine some ideas here for the black mesa part... maybe have shephard get sent in to black mesa as a CP and and still have the fight with Race X, xenians combine but maybe there shouldn't be any survivors but you meet up with kleiner and eli going for the xen crystals”

Eli and Kleiner likely haven’t returned to Black Mesa since they left. I find it more likely that they took the crystal out of Black Mesa so they could look into it more without the ever-present fear of getting mowed down by the military. Sure, they lack a laboratory, but Black Mesa seemed pretty much done for.

“and have the part about the satalites (where at this part I'm a bit confused so you guys should settle this) where eli and kleiner are telling you what to do here and we could throw in the part about eli's leg helping kleiner somewhere I think that would probably fit exept I'm starting to wonder if we should ditch the CP idea and maybe have a contact in the city tell him to travel to black mesa or something but i'm not sure, tripod is basicly in charge of the black mesa part.”

Do de do. Satellite.

Kleiner and Eli don’t really know about the Satellites as far as I know. Not sure if they’re in Decay. I think that Eli lost his leg on the initial escape from Black Mesa…Not entirely sure, though, and we may be able to use it.

I’m for ditching the CP idea, as long as you can come up with something better than a contact telling him to travel to Black Mesa and can figure a way to make it make sense.

Personally, I think the CP idea helps, and it even provides for a much more interesting ending (La de da, I’ll talk about this later. Can’t really talk about new ideas while defending the old)

I’m in charge of the Black Mesa part because no one else thinks Black Mesa can exist. Hurrah.

“Really my ideas for 7-hour war I'm keeping I just need to clear up the ideas with the citadel.. maybe they never make it there? Maybe they get utterly crushed and shephard and some marines go into retreat and see breen surrendering. I'll need to think some of this over, feel free to keep discussing guys.”

Yup, keep thinking the 7-Hour War part over. I’ll help you smooth it out later. Uh, I want to encourage you to not have homeless people and marines telling Shephard what to do, though. Those always seem kind of awkward to me…Unless you think you can properly pull it off…somehow. I still think it’d be too odd for the game.

“Though it's better placing it in Nevada and California. Besides California is a desert land which antlions love. And there are US marine bases all over California. That's just a perfect setting.”

Hmm, Nevada or California, because California has desert. So does New Mexico. So does much of the South West portion of the States. I’m guessing you live in/around California or Nevada…?

I don’t think US Marine bases really matter by the time the Combine come. As I stated before: I prefer more immersion. The person playing the game is the one who is supposed to make the “decisions,” and the whole “Soldier’s instinct,” shouldn’t come into their mind. There’s also the problem with the fact that US Military bases will have moved to city centers, or some of them would. Their might would need to be used to get resources and such for the concentrations of humans, as there’s Xenians everywhere.

There are also bases in New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and other states. I don’t see why California is the perfect setting.

“And Black mesa is completely uninhabitable. Ever heard of nuclear radiation? Shephard doesn't have a complete biohazard suit. Well maybe the P.C.V but it's pointless to go back to black mesa. All it is now is just a giant hole. It was completely destroyed by the nuclear explosion.”

Yes, I have head of nuclear radiation. Have you heard of nuclear fallout? Do you know that radiation dissipates after a while, too? Well, it breaks down and such stuff. It never really completely goes away, it just lingers around being…radioactive.

Shephard COULD have a complete biohazard suit if he joins the Combine. (Those suits look pretty resistant, and with a bit of help from scientists in Black Mesa, Shephard’s got one of the best suits in the world. Human and Combine technology…combined once again.)

Black Mesa isn’t a giant hole. Read on.

“I changed my mid I believe Shephard should help eli and kleiner make their way to europe and create black mesa west. If anyone doesn't know city 17 is actualy based in Sofia, Bulgaria. Why? One of the developers of city 17 was Bulgarian so he decided to make it look a bit like his country. The fight should be treachorous but shephard will survive and stay at black mesa west.”

Uh, okay. I like this more than your California idea, anyway.

It’s an option, though it takes heavy fixing to get that to work. It also requires a lot of useless travel time (Perhaps it can give the illusion of going somewhere, like the driving part of HL2, which I personally found a bit dull).

Black Mesa East, you mean.

There were coordinates in a password once that pointed at a pretty blank area on the map, but it was in/near Eastern Europe. I also heard about one of the guys being Bulgarian…Or something like that and basing much of the architecture and such on his home country. Or they visited…something like that. Black Mesa East…You think he should stay there? It was a bit big, but I don’t think it could provide the same extended laboratory feeling and such as Black Mesa Original did.

BrokenTripod:

Nada!

Reaper21:

“Eh dont' stress yourself too much tripod =P I've got enough info to know what I'm doing for now.”

All right, then. Do de do. That’s the reason it’s a bit late. I was hoping to get this done yesterday, but I had stuff to do. So, I should finish it today.

Whee.

“And to xxghostkillerxx ya shephard could survive the radiation with his PCV.”

Except for the fact that it doesn’t really cover all of his body. The rest is still pretty exposed because it’s just fabric. I think the Combine suit might be better prepared for exposure to radiation…?

“And yah a nuke would for the most part ahnilate black mesa but realisticly it wouldn't disenegrate every part of it =P alot of it is underground too, black mesa is huge.”

Exactly some of my points. I’ll make those REALLY soon. Keep reading!

“And plus wouldn't it be cool to go through the whole post-nuculear setting?”

Of course it would be cool. Parts of the facility aren’t all destroyed and stuff, though, because then it might just look like we’re mapping with debris instead of actual mapping…

“If anyone should return to black mesa it should be shephard really so I think its a good idea.”

Shephard would be a good candidate for a return, since he saw it explode. Or, that’s what I think. He’s also the only other person the G-man really talks to/sees.

La de da.

Black Mesa time!![/u][/I]

Ugh. This is like page 15 on my word document. Sure, a bunch of it is quoting and spacing, but really, I’m supposed to do 18 pages of notes on a book (Well, 9, since it’s double space), so I’ve written more here. Sheeeeesh.

Alright, so here’s some fun links to have open while I explain why Black Mesa isn’t a hole in the ground:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CowLXP0P7dU

Part 2 of a 3 part Opposing Force speed run. 1:32 = Nuke. 8:50 = Dam.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr9ErlAfLA8

Part 3 of a 3 part Opposing Force speed run.

www.nextdimension.org/bmrf/

Picture of the Black Mesa Research Facility, compiled from all the different maps in the game…Unfortunately, there’s nothing to show the depth of these screenshots (Well, we don’t really know. It was just a long elevator ride down/up to different parts, right?)

In any case, Valve’s ideas don’t translate perfectly into a workable test facility. Some of the places you go in the game DO overlap other portions and some of them don’t actually connect properly! I would know, as I once tried compiling a map of Black Mesa, but without a good program with layers (Which I have now…perhaps I should try to remake the map! Haha, NEVER).

Anyway, Black Mesa Research Facility is effing huge. If you look at that picture, you see that the map is split into two completely separate parts, without anything connecting them. This is because of the part where Gordon gets knocked out and dragged into the trash compactor.

Because of this, we have NO IDEA how huge Black Mesa actually is or how far away these two portions of map are.

To get a true sense of how tiny Gordon is, look at the top left of the actual map. This is where you start Half-Life. You’re on a train and that corridor-thing is bigger than the train. And you’re smaller than the train. So if you wanted to get a true idea of how small you are, you can think of yourself as about 3x3 pixels…? Maybe?

It’s probably not THAT small, but when you compare a person to this facility, you can really realize how HUGE the place is.

Oops, I’m focusing too much on how huge the place is. Annnd you probably already knew that. So, just remember that Black Mesa is freakin’ huge and we have no idea how large the place really is.

Nuclear bombs also don’t just disintegrate everything around them when they explode (like xxghostkillxx seems to think). They release a LOT of energy and such. They also generate a shockwave and basically do a LOT of damage to places.

Yes, they’re very scary. But no, they don’t disintegrate everything. Humans…yes, they simply disappear, but reinforced concrete/asphalt and metallic objects won’t simply disappear. They get bent, malformed, moved, etc. and nothing really looks the way it used to…

Nuclear bombs are scary. Remember this, just in case there’s ever threat of Nuclear War.

Alright, so Black Mesa is huge and Nuclear bombs make a huge explosion. Hurrah.

Next point…Hmm, it’s hard to choose what I want to say next…

Alright, so Black Mesa Research Facility used to be an old missile site or something. Likely created during the Cold War. (Old office buildings, missile silos, etc. There’s lots of evidence that Black Mesa used to be an old Missile facility-placey. Valve might’ve said it themselves, but I’m not 100% sure.)

So, these missile launch facilities are made to get hit with massive explosives and keep functioning. If our facility gets hit with a nuke, then we can’t return fire…Which totally kills the idea of Mutually Assured Destruction.

Arg, I’m not going to go too far into it, but just realize that Black Mesa was originally created to withstand a nuclear missile. It could at least stand the blast enough to fire another rocket or two into the opposing country.

So, Black Mesa is huge, was built to withstand a nuke. And nukes cause huge explosions. Starting to see how Black Mesa is likely to still be there…?

Continuing onwards.

The government KNEW that Black Mesa could withstand a single nuke, so what did they do..? They brought more than one!

Look at the Part 2 video on Youtube at 1:32. You see the guy speedrunning around the area with the Black Ops and the Nuclear bomb. I’m kind of thinking this one was already on the surface, though, although there’s absolutely no reason for it. I think there was on one Half-Life, also…Where you were jumping around in a maze of tripwires.

Meh, whatever. I personally think that these bombs were set up in the way they were so that once one of the nukes went off, the rest would, also. There’s not much to prevent scientists from disabling the bombs after Gordon/Shephard goes through an area and kills all the enemies, though.

So, it’s possible that people around the facility deactivated these other bombs.

Alright, now we’ve got: Black Mesa is huge and can withstand bombs. Nukes cause huge explosions. There’s multiple ones.

So we see that Black Mesa is destroyed if all the nukes go off. YAY.

But now I show why Black Mesa isn’t really damaged at ALL from the one nuke that DOES go off.

I find it pretty obvious, but no one else seems to know/notice.

I’ll assume you guys have played Half-Life already. Do you remember the part with the DAM?

Well, yeah, you leave the facility and go to the dam, then jump off the dam and jump around a bit more outside before returning to the inside of the facility.

Well, the dam is where Opposing Force makes a split from Half-Life. In Half-life, you jump through this area before Shephard gets here…And so Shephard gets here and there’s a garg wired with explosives in the middle of the dam. So you make the alien explode and then jump into a pipe in the dam. You sliiiide down.

View 8:50 in the part 2 video for the dam part.

Alright, now I’m not sure how good of a sense of direction any of you guys have, but you can play the game or something instead of using this video…

Anyway, you follow the flow down the pipe and go straight for a bit, then turn right, then left. Something along those lines. Now look at the Black Mesa picture…

You see the dam in the bottom left corner, I think. Well, you at least see the water that’s near the dam, which is covered up by other stuff…

Anyway, if you sort of think about where that would end up…It would be somewhere in the bottom left corner…Er, in the big black space.

Anyway, view all of part three of the speed run or so…And you’ll see that Shephard is running in the opposite direction of the dam/entrance of the facility. Ever notice that?

Also, the nuke appears in the video approximately 50 seconds in. Look at the surroundings. It’s in a parking garage.

The only nuke that goes off is in a parking garage.

The only nuke that goes off is in a parking garage away from the dam, the facility, away from like…everything.

The only thing you see in the areas underneath is storage and boxes being transported by an overly sophisticated set of conveyor belts.

Alright…Let’s see if this wraps it up.

Black Mesa is a huge facility, built to withstand at least one nuclear explosion. A nuke goes off in Black Mesa’s parking garage. Underneath said parking garage is a storage facility. Underneath that is where a Gene worm just happens to be appearing. We see that humans have been here before with laser guns. Obviously this isn’t the only portal, otherwise humans wouldn’t be able to get here, due to the massive outpouring of Shocktroopers, pit drones, Etc. etc. It also appears the only exit to this area is the place you came down, the elevator. But there’s a Barney alive up there behind a locked door with Black Ops, etc. fighting.

So, how does a single nuke in a parking garage of a HUGE research facility cause the whole facility to be destroyed..?

Well, to put it frankly…It doesn’t.

Black Mesa is still there. Nothing can really leave, seeing as nuclear fallout would spread over the top of the facility and be harmful to anyone trying to leave.

La de da. Must I explain more..?

If I do, then you’re pretty thick headed…


(Yes, I realize it's not the longest post in the world, but it WAS big enough to the point in which splitting it in HALF still didn't fit the requirements. Guh, if you DO respond, make sure you QUOTE what you are responding to, like I did. Please be sure to space out the response so that it's not a giant block of text.)

[Reaper21]

wow... you wern't kidding about "biggest post in the world" lol. I'm not going to respond to everything but I'm just going to address some topics and kinda summarize.

"I still don’t think other marines would really know Shephard or what the HECU was doing back in Black Mesa, as that was supposed to be a secret mission."

They don't know Shephard, hes not famous like gordon freeman its actually pretty opposite they just know his name and that hes part of the HECU cause all marines carry tags with their name and military stuff, everyone knows that! =P And it would probably just seem a little suspicious to the "Normal" marines that a HECU guys pops up in the middle of a alien invasion but they have to trust him because they "think" he knows how to fight the combine, ahh i'll explain this more in a 7-hour war discussion, ya i should start a new thread some time.

So ya we're clear up those ideas later including the whole citadel thing (which dosn't seem that bad a idea).

"His PCV and old uniform/gas mask is human made and probably isn’t quite as good at covering Shephard from radiation and the sort."

ya i forgot about the whole skin exposing thing and actually was thinking about that while i was mapping =P and ya after thinking about shephards gear the CP idea would be better, and the homeless people and contacts were just random ideas... forget them i guess.

"Eli and Kleiner likely haven’t returned to Black Mesa since they left. I find it more likely that they took the crystal out of Black Mesa so they could look into it more without the ever-present fear of getting mowed down by the military. Sure, they lack a laboratory, but Black Mesa seemed pretty much done for."

Ya that makes more since... but i really don't know about eli and kleiner or who would be down there but shephard will meet somone down there and really the whole satalite thing... that was what I meant by ideas i thought were "crazy" cause well its just really complicated I barley get it and if i barley get it then I doubt the players would understand what the hell is going on, thats why I thought maybe the xen crystal thing might be a better aim maybe? or find a way to simplify the satalite part if you still really want to keep it, but really I'm gonna leave that to you tripod, other than that i guess this is what we have so far:

1. Shephard wakes up at a helicopter crash in New Mexico (Part1) (after intro of course) IT WILL BE IN 7-HOUR WAR.
2. Shephard does meet up with some marines but is mostly independent, But given orders to try to assault combine citadel ending up failing.
3. Next part of story (Part2) takes part after war and shephard will probably become a CP for a time and shephard WILL BE COMING BACK TO BLACK MESA BECAUSE IT ISN'T DESTORYED.
4. His objective at black mesa we're not sure either with the crystal, the satalite... maybe both probably next thing we should decide.
5. AFTER black mesa (Part 3) will have shephard and scientists/whoever he meets in black mesa teleport to... i'm guesing our unnamed city in new mexico. We also gotta explain how shephard gets his old gear back cause.. we just have to! errr... other than that Part 3 is a big blank including the ending...

Brokentripod basicly told you guys every freakin detail and explanation you need about black mesa and other topics and i read it ALL and it makes since so don't tell us something crazy and stupid like make shephard go on a mission into Antarctica chasing down breen because black mesa is destroyed =P (not trying to discourage you guys but just want to make that clear.) Sooo 3 things we should worry about in this thread is... shephard's main "objective" in black mesa other than survive, who hes going to meet... and eventually what they doing next in new mexico. I think we should start discussing the 7-hour war part, i'll make another thread soon for that but we should try to rap this up first... (keep in mind we've got plenty of time for ideas for black mesa so keep discussing if you want) other parts of the mod kinda need my attention now... busy busy busy =P.

[brokentripod]

Annd I'm off to the other topic, then.

I'll come back to this one eventually.

[xxghostkillxx]

I believe though that Shephard should battle his way with Kleiner, Eli, still little Alyx. Though that would require more models to create. But if somehow we can achieve making new models for them. The storyline should be based on a journey through the U.S with of course a lot of 7 hour war action from the cities of California to the Chicago streets. Though of course to make thing interesting you get seperated so that would explain Half Life 2 better. As in Black Mesa East you wouldn't see Shephard. So you find Kleiner and Eli in a small town of course near where you finish killing the strider in the begining. I think that's a nice start.

[brokentripod]

The problem with that is the fact that the 7-Hour War only lasts 7 Hours. Shephard can't get from California to Chicago in that time. It's not like he has a plane or something.

Even if he did have a plane, who would be crazy enough to fly it from CA to IL with aliens attacking?

The flight takes about 3-4 hours also, depending on the plane, and most everyone would call a plane going off on a leisurely trip a coward for not helping out in the war.

I'm not even sure we can add a young Alyx to the game...I haven't seen a mod that puts children (Under 18) into the game. I don't think I feel like being part of the team that's the first to do it.

Sure, I don't think there's anything that prevents us from doing it, I'd just rather not.

I think this mod requires too many models for AI/NPCs currently. If we can't get someone helping us with NPCs/AI/Models for NPCs, I suggest we try making a less NPC/New enemy intensive portion of the mod first.

La de da, I'm off to post in the other topic...maybe.